Disclaimer: It looks like some people come here expecting a professional review, then end up disappointed and post angry comments. So let me be clear: I am not a firearms expert. This is not a professional review. I’m some dude who happens to own both the rifle and a blog. These are my personal opinions. Yes, there may be factual errors in my review. If you want a professional review, go elsewhere.
The VTR is one of the latest additions to the venerable Remington 700 series, with a rather silly TLA: Varmint Tactical Rifle. If you like going prairie dog hunting in ninja outfits, this is apparently the rifle for you (well, not sure ninjas are tactical, but you get the idea). Anyway, let’s take a closer look at this ninja rifle.
The barrel
Aside from its silly name, one of the most noticeable characteristics of this rifle is the triangular barrel, and built in muzzle break.
The guy at the gun store claimed this triangular cross section added rigidity to the barrel, but I’m not sure that’s true. I’m no structural engineer, but I’m pretty sure you can’t make something stronger by removing material, but you can remove material in such a way that rigidity or tensile strength isn’t compromised, so you get the same or similar strength with less material (if I’m not mistaken, that’s the theory behind i-beams).
On various forums, I’ve heard people claim (or at least guess) that the triangular barrel would help cool the barrel; kind of like a fluted barrel, but with bigger flutes. Again, I am skeptical of this claim. Fluting helps cool a barrel by increasing the surface area. The triangular barrel on the VTR has less surface area than a cylindrical barrel of similar dimensions. My following masterpiece in abstract art may help illustrate:
Imagine this is the cross section of a barrel, and compare the line segments A (fluted) and B (normal), and it is obvious that A is longer (ergo greater surface area). Now compare C and D and it is clear that D is longer than the straight cut. The cuts on the VTR barrel are straight and more like C, so it clearly reduces surface area.
The drastic cuts in the barrel do reduce weight, and probably does so without sacrificing too much in rigidity (and at its thickest, it’s equivalent to some heavier contour barrels, so it’s probably pretty strong). It also looks pretty cool (or at least different), but I’m not sure it otherwise adds a whole lot of value. The built-in muzzle break also looks cool, but it’s mostly cosmetic, especially for rifles chambered for .223. (Note: Some people question the accuracy/validity of my analysis on the barrel’s design and effects. Read the comments to see what others have to say.)
Do the twist
While not entirely off the topic of barrels, the one redeeming, nay, attractive feature of the VTR barrel in .223 is the 1 in 9″ twist. For some reason, all the civilian (e.g. not “Police”) model Remington 700s chambered for .223 other than the VTR have a 1 in 12″ twist, which will stabilize up to 55 grain bullets, but not much higher. Maybe people prefer super light (30-40gr?) bullets at shorter ranges, but if you want to shoot beyond 200yrds, you need at least 1-9 or 1-10 to stabilize heavier bullets. From what I’ve read, a 1 in 9″ twist barrel should stabilize bullets up to 69gr and possibly even 75 or 77gr, so that should increase the effective accurate range of the .223 VTR out to 500yds and beyond. Now, I’ll be honest. I’ve never shot at a range greater than 200yds, and I haven’t started reloading yet so it’s not like I even have any 75gr bullets. But I hope I’ll get around to both shooting at greater ranges and reloading, so I’m glad I have a rifle that has the necessary twist out of the box.
Trigger
Now let’s move a little back from the barrel and look at the trigger. Like many of the new R700 models, the VTR comes with the new X-Mark Pro trigger. I don’t have enough (well, any) experience with older R700 triggers, so I can’t tell whether they’re better or worse. All my other rifles have 2-stage triggers, so personally, I’m a little put-off by the mere fact that it’s single stage. It might just be the one I have, but there’s definitely some creep, and it also feels really heavy, though not consistently so (but then, maybe my trigger pull is inconsistent, not the trigger). I might try and adjust the trigger, or possibly replace it with a Timney.
Magazine
The VTR in .223 has a 5 round capacity, which is great, especially when you’re trying to shoot 5 shot groups, or 5 cans, or 4 cans and you missed one, or… well, whatever. However, I’m thinking of upgrading mine with either a mag extender to increase capacity to 9 (couldn’t they just have gone to 10?), or a detachable magazine kit (though they’re kinda expensive, and in short supply).
How they kept costs down
Now we come to the stock. As the sub-heading suggests, it’s probably the one thing they sacrificed to keep the VTR relatively affordable. I believe it’s the same stock as the SPS but in a different color. Anyway, it’s made of plastic (injection molded?), is mostly hollow, and generally feels cheap. There’s obviously no bedding, and doesn’t free-float the barrel or anything. It does have dual QD studs, but the Harris bipod I got only attaches to the rear stud and renders the forward one unusable, so I don’t think that’s really a plus. As soon as I save up some money, I’m going to buy a H-S Precision stock, although I’m not sure whether the ADL or BDL stocks will fit the VTR (leave a comment if you know the answer).
Accuracy
I guess when people buy cool looking bolt action rifles, they want to know how accurate it is because they must, absolutely must have a sub-moa rifle. People are weird like that. Well, dear reader, I’m afraid I’m not the right guy to comment on accuracy because I’m not good enough of a shot to know whether I’m a 2 MOA shooter or the rifle is. I’ve shot a few hundred rounds of remanufactured Black Hills 55gr ammo over the last several weeks, and I’ve consistently gotten 1.5-1.75″ groups, and occasionally get 1.25-1.5″ groups. One time, a couple of weekends ago, I got the following, which I believe is pretty darn close to 1″ (at 100yds = 1MOA).
Now, given that I myself am likely not a sub-moa shooter, it’s entirely possible (if not likely) that the rifle itself shoots sub-moa out of the box. With a better stock, and good ammo it’ll probably do better. I’m afraid that’s the best I can say for now.
Conclusion
I’ll withhold any pretentious pseudo-objective judgement of this rifle, and just say that I’m happy with it. I wanted a Remington 700 in .223 with a 1 in 9″ twist, and my options were either the VTR or a 700P. The VTR was significantly cheaper, although it would probably come out to be about the same (or more) if I buy a replacement stock. The VTR does have a 5 round magazine as opposed to the 700P’s 4, but then with after market options, that might not be a huge difference. If you must have the best and can afford it, go with the 700P. But the VTR is pretty good for what you pay for.
[...] 17, 2008 by ryochiji I’ve been shooting my VTR a lot, but I’m also looking to add another semi-automatic rifle to my collection. Right now, [...]
thank you for that blog, i myself have bought a vtr .223 and am very impressed with its performance, i also find the pressure point in the stock can also be annoying at times, shoot with 55gr winchester super x1, and get a 1.5 inch group at 100 but thats if you want to spend lots of mony on ammo apposed to highland or the cheap crap barnaul. i also own guns with 2 stage triggers, and the vtr being my first without, but i find when you want to shoot a deer you dont always have time for the 2 stage. and what do you think of the bolt? this is my first remington rifle im use to my good old lee enfield 303 action.
@john: Thanks for your comment. I just got a Ishapore 2A1 Enfield, and definitely prefer the Lee Enfield action over the Mauser-style action. I think the action on my particular VTR could use a little tuning, because I have to use quite a bit of force to open/close it some times.
i converted my SMLE to a 303/25, its an amazing gun and i believe your very right with prefering the action of the enfield over mauser, the lighter load (85gr) i find much more satifiying than the usaul 303 loads, but i my self was up set hacking and butchering away at such an amazing rifle i was ashamed but the rifle doesnt dissapoint me one bit, but thats coming of the VTR, i find that sometimes i have to be abit deliberate when opening/closing the bolt, but then again it compairs nothing to my mosin nagant, that thing is a good hard hitting i’ll take that deer out and the one behind it gun, but the action is soo stiff, but wont ever modify it because im keeping it fully military with boyonet e.t.c, once again i’ll thankyou for your time and effort into this blog it helps alot of people im sure, and before i forget DON’T EVER SCREW IN THE MOUNTS WITH THE SCREWS THE WRONG WAY ROUND, i found out the hrd way and took hours at the range trying to find out why it wouldn’t close properly haha
and one more thing, mini 14’s are great fun but you can get alot of good rifles the same price and yet more accurate
I wish my VTR would shoot a 6 inch group. I am currently having it repaired again. Remington Sposedly fixed it but it came home in worse shape than I sent it off. Sent it back today so I can wait another 10 weeks
You should have looked at the 700SPS Tactical as it comes with the 1/9 twist rate. I have had one for a year and a half and the thing is extremely accurate. I shoot 69gr Buffalo Bore ammo and hold a 3 shot group 1/2 MOA at 100yds. The rifle is a bit on the heavy side with the bull barrel, but I can live with it. I put a 3-12 x 56mm Meopta w/ a 30mm tube and illuminated reticle on this rifle. All in all this is one sweet gun. I even had the barrel threaded for a suppressor.
Good luck with your VTR
Maybe you should speak to a structural engineer before spouting such ignorance.. shame. By the way, fluting not only cools quickly, but it also makes the barrel more rigid in that it doesn’t twist as much as a non-fluted barrel.
As far as your groups, did you ever try lighter rounds? I know some one with one of these and they consistantly shoot .75 to 1″ @ 100yrds. But, they also shoot lighter bullets than 55.
I have an older mini 14. Fun to play with, reliable, but no tackdriver. I have found that heavier rounds seem to stabalize more than the usual 55 grain.
Oh, and by the way, us folks out here that need MOA or better can and do shoot well. Try hitting a ground squirrel’s head at 200 or 300 yards with a rifle that is only capable of 3MOA (mini 14).
As far as specific firearm issues, a regular production weapon may have some issues (we call them Monday guns) where not quite enough love was put into them. I had a Ruger P345 that consistantly shot 8″ to the left, with myself and four of my friends shooting it. One of my friend’s nephews has the exact same pistol and it shot fine. Sent it back to Ruger, it came back and shot the same as it did before sending it off. I sold it.
Thanks for the comments gents. I just looked at the VTR today in .223. I also looked at the SPS. Both have a great feel although I like the integrated limb-saver on the SPS (not that the .223 has a huge recoil). I also have a Mini-14 that I’ve had for 25 years. I’ve shot at least 35 mountain goats and several large boars out to about 250 yards while hunting in Maui as I grew up. I also have a Model 700 VMT in 22-250 and a Model 700 XCR in .308.
I hand-load and I’m presently shooting the XCR out to 710 yards with superb accuracy. It would seem that the VTR would be a nicer field rifle for hunters of all types while the SPS is akin more to bench shooting; although I’d probably throw a strap on it and use it in the field. I’m interested to hear from anyone who has shot the .223 versions of either the VTR or SPS at any distances beyond 400 yards. If so what loads are you using and what are your comments? Thanks.
First of all anybody that rates a rifle should have the experience to do so, this rifle is like the SPS Varmint, it is an affordable way to get varmint hunting, i have both rifles and the VTR is in .204 ruger. Both rifles shoot well under 1 moa (which is 1.004 inches not 1 inch) with hand loads or ANY ammo, it just takes some common sense in shooter ability and the right setup. Just remember if you don’t buy high quality optics, you don’t really care about shooting.
I’m looking at this as a “fun” alternative to the same ‘ole M24/R700 sniper clones a lot of folks want, kinda like a project gun.
Now some technical stuff: a fluted barrel cools quicker not by more surface area, but by allowing air to reach the inner barrel quicker. So in design (and by the diagram) task accomplished with the triangle cut. Also, a compensated barrel (similar to one used on some Israeli long guns) allows for quicker follow-up shots especially when mated to a heavy barrel.
Not being free-floated is upsetting, but I guess the price went into all of the extra machining of the barrel. Having looked at them at a shop, the stock flexes too much to just hog out the fore-end with a Dremel (‘poor man’s floating’).
Any comments on the performance of the compensator and barrel heating as compared to other rifles in your shooting bag would be good.
About the cooling with fluting vs. triangular vs. a cylindrical barrel… the rate of heat dissipation is directly proportion to surface area and inversely proportional to thickness of the insulator. Thus, while the fluted and cylindrical barrel may clearly have more surface area (as in your schematic) the distance from the center of the barrel to the outer surface is greater in the former. It is not exactly clear from the schematics how this would play out in your diagram.
This would have to be one of the worst reviews of a firearm I have ever read. You give opinions on matters you have no understanding. On your own admission you have little to no experience with firearms other then a select few in a narrow field of application.
The whole context of the review is summed up in your first paragraph with ridiculous statements such as “ninja” rifle.
You give opinions and your own summation of the barrel design without any qualificatio????
You berate the unset trigger out of the box and then admit to virtual no experience in using single stage triggers. All your firearms have 2 stage triggers. WTF over.
Magazine capacity 5 rounds. Not enough???? Maybe you should aim.
Then people start commenting on SMLE actions preferring it to the Mauser design??? I won’t even start on this and the rear locking shortcomings. Maybe these persons are from Afghanistan or Pakistan and the venerable old 303 is all they can get. Maybe these people should go back to the old muzzle loader as obviously technological advancement is lost on them.
Mini 14’s ugghhh. Should be used as a oar only. Seriously no disconcerting firearm user would admit to having one.
Anybody interested in purchasing this firearm should totally ignore this review. This review validates the saying
Internet = errornet
Scott, thanks for your feedback. If you were expecting a professional review here, then I’m sorry you were disappointed. As you noticed (and I clarify in my post), I am not a professional. This is a blog, not a professional publication. I offer my personal opinion on matters, and yes, some of it may even be misinformed. Some of the previous comments may have corrected my mistakes, maybe not. That’s how blogs work.
In any case, your comment (and others like it) prompted me to add a disclaimer to the top of this “review”. Hopefully it will set the right expectations for future readers.
p.s. The “ninja” comment was meant to be sarcasm. In case you’re not familiar with sarcasm (also known as “irony”), it’s a form of humor.
Don’t be discouraged by a holes like that. You keep doing what you are doing man. Sometimes I like to hear what the average Joe like myself has to say about a gun. I don’t always like to read only what the self proclaimed experts have to say. They always say the same old boring things. Its like all these “professional” gun writters cut and paste their reviews from some sort of database sponsored by the gun manufacturers. In fact, I don’t recall ever reading a bad review. They always say something nice. I guess it is kinda hard to get free things out of the manufacturers when you are brutally honest. An unbiased opinion is always welcomed in my ears. Your experience with this rifle is probably closer to that of which will be mine. Or at least much closer than to that of a “professional” gun writter. So, like I said keep doing what you are doing, some of us do appreciate it.
No discriminating firearm user would pay much notice those droves of “disconcerting” firearm users out there. Besides, what does causing upsetting experiences have to do with it?
What was that about qualifications and the errornet?
Nice down-to-earth blog Ryo.
Good honest review! I have the 700VTR in 223 and with factory ammo I was getting about the same accuracey – but I handload and have reduced my groups to .250″ at 100 yds using Sierra 55 gr HPBT & 21.5 grains Reloader 7 with CCI small rifle primers
Nice of some of you bozo’s to bash this guy’s review….and then not give any constructive criticism or advice.
The only question I have is that it seems you are not real pleased with the rifle….so why are you going to throw more money at it? (custom stock, extended magazine, etc.) If I were not happy with the rifle, I’d dump it.
Take a look at the Savage 10 Predator. Reasonable cost, 1:9 barrel. Or look at the Mod. 10FP……not quite as fancy, but just as serviceable. I have a Mod. 12BVS and it is a tack-driver. I’m considering selling it though, because I like the Predator better. The Predator has a 22″ barrel and lighter stock. The Mod. 12 has a 26″ barrel, which from what I have read and heard, is over-kill for the .223 round. 22″ or even 20″ barrels are just as accurate.
The Remington 700 might be a better rifle, but you’ll pay a lot more for it…..and I’m not sure it’s all that much better. I think you pay a lot for the name and reputation. I don’t dislike the Remington. I have a PSS-LTR in .308 that is excellent. I just think they may be a little over priced for the average shooter.
I’m inclined to think that the triangular shaped barrel of the VTR is a bit gimicky. And while I am no engineer, I also agree that I can’t see how taking that much material off the barrel makes it more rigid. Fluting, on the other-hand, does make sense. I also think that free-floating the barrel is important and bedding is critical as well. I don’t quite understand the necessity of a muzzle-brake on a .223. Like I said….looks a little bit like it’s designed to sell rifles (oooh…..a cool muzzle-brake)
Ryochiji, I agree with Todd, good down to earh blog & The VTR is a good rifle, I have one in 22-250 & carry it in my truck to shoot at the occasional coyote or prarie dog, but it’s not bench rest material, don’t think its really marketed as such. I do have to comment on a couple of statements people have made in this string however. The guys talking Enfield and Mauser are full of crap, evidently neither has owned a good Mauser of any kind. I own multiple examples of both and like the speed of the Enfield bolt, but that speed comes with the drawbacks of reduced stregnth and accuracy. Good Mausers are silky smooth & extremely strong and reliable. Also it seemed to me they were referring to the VTR’s bolt as “Mauser style”, meaning they have never compared them before. Besides both having 2 front locking lugs they are completely different. Also # of lugs means nothing to “smoothness”, ever shoot a Bowning A-Bolt, super smooth & has 3 lugs in the front, same with my Tikka’s.
TR
Thanks for the opinions The nice part is it doesn’t have to be professional sometimes it’s nice to get someone’s or better peoples opinions prior to purchase. I am looking at possiably picking up the .308 version for deer/elk and was not sure how people liked the round through this gun. I agree the stock definitly has a plastic feel, gonna try it though. Worst case I’ll have to pick up a stock saw a nice thumbhole for 700’s.
Thanks for the info…
Decent article for the VTR at least your honest about you experience. I have a VTR in .308 and can get 1 inche groups with factory 150 gr loads. I will agree that the stock is cheap, but what $600-$700 dosn’t have a cheap stock. The hogue stock on the sps tactical is flimsy and the Savage 10fp plastic stocks are no better than the remington and a a 10fp witha HS Precision it a $1000. I am currently looking at a Mcmillan A2 as a replacement. I had the same question about compatability, but as far I understand it the VTR is still a Rem 700 action and its a BDL/hinged floor plate, but I am going to call them before I actually give them my money. As far a rigidity of this barrel I believe that traingular barrel will put up with more than a circular barrel during any kind of prolonged stress test. Try folding a piece of paper in the shape of a triangle, a square and a rolled one to see wich one bends easier.
Thanks for the honest review of the rifle. I immediately liked the “ninja” look of the rifle and expected that it would be about as accurate as most any out of the box model 700 which is usually pretty good. I am curious though… How loud is this rifle?? I have a heavy barreled full varmit rifle in 223 that has a complete muzzle brake. It is obnoxiously loud but is a necessary evil for being able to spot my own shots at long ranges. In dog towns on a rest with ear-plugs this is not that big of a deal but since this would be a hunting-walking around rifle for me I do not want to have to wear ear-muffs. Any thoughts???
@mike: The muzzle break is definitely annoyingly loud when shooting under a roof, for example at a shooting range. It sounds more like a 30-06 than a 223. Out in the open, though, it’s not noticeable at all because the muzzle break slits all point up and away from the shooter (and neighbors). So if you mostly shoot out in the open and need to see your shots, then I think it’s a plus. If you mostly shoot under a roof, then it’s annoying.
Just a thought….would it make sense for a triangular barrel to cool faster due to the fact that there is less material (less mass)causing the barrel to cool faster?
Just a thought. Seems the gun would be fun too shoot either way.
Before you compare to the SPS better check the twist rates. The slower twist rates will definitely not stabilize heavier bullets and the faster twist rates will rip up the light little bullets like 30-45 gr.
I bought a VTR in .223 and I was pretty impressed with it as standard.
We took it out for some testing and managed to get a group of .56 moa with some reloads we had. Best factory load did a .84 moa. So it is still very much a sub-moa rifle. I’m impressed.
I love the look of the entire rifle too.
Anyone that says that barrel is going to be weaker needs to go and do an engineering course. Use your freakin brains.
Nice article. I rather enjoyed it. The Internet snipers who think you have to shoot less than 1 MOA to be considered enthusiast are just fooling themselves. It is refreshing to read about someone shooting their rifle and just simply writing about it. Great blog and I hope you enjoy your new rifle for years to come, new stock or not.
BTW..the rifle is a sub-moa rifle. I was shooting with 69gr Sierra Matchkings (Federal Gold) and I consistently got around .4 to .7 groups.
Hi i would just like to say i dont know much about guns right off the bat, and thank you very much for writing this im really intrested in this rifle. I would like to just point out that yes a triangle has less surface area but it also has less mass so it would cool off more quickly. Also as far as rigidity goes a triangle is the most stable and durible shape in nature. And just to make sure im not trying to come off as ungrateful or as a know-it-all i just wanted to put my two cents out there. Thank you again for posting this I defently going to consider buying this rifle now.
These guys Joe and Scott–fucking douche bags. The thing says blog at the top, not review. That said, it’s actually the best review I’ve ever read as most all of them are clearly biased by the author’s having ‘received’ the firearm from a lobby of advertising execs (yea, this is how companies get around that little bit of full disclosure). The rest of the so-called reviews are so god awfully boring that’s it becomes down right painful to read–written by hacks; gun nuts who can’t write worth shit. Yea that’s a semi colon–Joe do you know what that means? Good blog dude, keep it up.
I have a VTR but in .308 for deer fitted with a cabelas tactical scope with compensator turret. It shoots .35 @ 100 yards. Turn the turret to 500 yards and shoot milk jugs all day long. It is lighter than my 7mm mag. and a good deer rifle. The scope was cheap $149.00 but has performed well in bad weather ( pacific northwest ). I do handload for all my rifles and am shooting a berger 168gr. VLD had to seat bullets long for maximun accuracy but loaded to fit in the mag still shoot under an inch. good enough for deer hunting. i adjusted the trigger down and there was no creep in mine. it was heavy but now it is perfect. I ranged a pop can @ 490 yards, adjusted the turret and shot Right on. They make the scope in a .223 also for the money I don’t think it can be beat. if you get into handloading i’m sure you can improve the accuracy. Thanks
Well folks…i love my vtr in 22-250…it’ll pop a shotgun shell at 100 yards everytime with the right shooter… go out and buy one! My optics are 6-24×42 Sightron SII D Big Sky series. I tell ya what…that things a hell of alot easier to shoot than my 300RUM in Rem 700.
and cheaper too!
Got my VTR in 308 over the weekend just got to get the scope and mount it… can’t wait it’s calling out shoot me… might not be able to wait until after new year to get the scope. Thanks for the review on the 308 planning on getting a Leopold but might try out the cabelas scope for the mean time sounds interesting. You haven’t had any issues with the turrets sticking or being too loose? I read that in a few of the review’s on Cabelas web site…
I’m not a gun expert…far from it but I do know a triangular shape is much more structurally sound than a circle….more rigidity and more apt to maintain it’s shape. So, the barrel could be as rigid as a traditional barrel. Probably is.
And, while it is true that a circle has more surface area to dissipate heat than a triangle, the circular barrel would also contain much more dense metal material to hold heat. Less material to hold heat, the quicker the cooling. Then again, using a bolt-action rifle, is heat build up really going to be that much of a problem.
Weight reduction seems to be the big advantage here. Sitting still all day and shooting four-legged varmits, moving about to get a good shot on a two-legged is another. Seems a lighter rifle that matches the accuracy of a heavier rifle would be an advantage. Balance might also be improved.
Thanks for the opportunity to add to your blog. I’m a grey-haired shooter who has been hunting for the past 60 years; so I’ve had some practice.
I picked up the VTR in .223 because , at heart, I’m a kid. ( One with wrinkles, my wife says.) Right now, interested in the problem it poses, since factory ammo yields 1.5″ groups, and my best reloads only get down to 1.25″ at 100 yards.
Not an “old eyes” symptom, since my Milspec 5R Remington in .308 gives me groups in the .300 and sometimes better.
So far, it looks like a stock and bedding problem. I’ve examined the bedding area and I’m wondering if anyone has tried to drill out the screw holes and pillar bed the action? First, I’ll resort to using a shim to free-float to see if this has any influence.
Looking forward to any input so I don’t try to re-invent the wheel. Good shooting to all.
I eventually put a H-S Precision stock on mine. With hand loads I can get <0.5″ groups at 100yrds, but I suspect the rifle can do better than that.
Artic Hunter, I thought it was on this blog but I didn’t see it above. I have read of people trying to free float the barrel it the factory stock without luck. The one I remember they actually ended up rebedding it just on fiberglass resin and showed improved accuracy above the factory, this is something I read somewhere so sorry I don’t know if they were just full of it so take it for what it’s worth . I’m sure an aftermarket stock would likely produce better result’s. I still haven’t got my scope yet should soon. Wasn’t gonna play with it until I have some prelim info…
Hey Shooters. I just wanted to comment primarily on all the pricks out there who came back on this blog and brought there obvious insecurities with them. First of all I appreciate the opportunity to reply to you ryochili and the honesty you brought out. It is really hard to try to brake into a world where everyone seemingly has to have a constant MDB competition (My Dick’s Bigger). To Daniel… 1 MOA is actually 1.047 inches @ 100 yards, this is known as TMOA (true minute of angle). 1 inch @ 100 yards is known as SMOA (shooter minute of angle). And no one uses TMOA unless they are shooting out past a mile and/or are in the engineering part of precision manufacturing or gunsmithing. To Joe and Scott… go home! Unless you are going to point this gentleman, who is obviously passionate about the same sport you are, in the right direction with some constructive criticism, just shut up! Nobody wants to hear you spout out about how you think people are dumb because they like their mini14’s. I agree, I don’t own one and wouldn’t own one simply because I have and prefer an AR15. That’s not say that other people can’t like them. You two sound like 2 little kids who got picked on at recess. I usually don’t throw out my personal credentials unless I’m trying to land another private contact gig but I spent 7 years in the military, the last 2 years I spent in a Marine Corps Scout Sniper Platoon and spent the majority of 2004 in Fallujah, Iraq as a Sniper. I used to shoot long-gun for a living where the price of error was lost lives. And you two faggots need to just shut up. When someone is trying to learn about the sport you already know about, why not give them a helping hand instead of beat them up. Ryochili, I personally think you write a great blog wether some of the info is erroneous or not, it’s obvious that you are NOT an idiot and are on a great route to learning all you can about long range precision shooting. Keep probing with new questions and try long range international’s forum. I’m not sure if it is LRI.com/forum or if it is Longrangeinternational.com/forum but it is a company owned and operated by Marine Scout Snipers I served with and they love to HELP people pursue this sport, not beat people up for being hungry for knowledge. Good luck on your journey and may the “pink mist” be an ever inviting reward.
Here’s another review for the Rem 700 VTR in .308 Win.: http://varmintxt.webs.com/rem700vtr.htm
Enjoy.
Thanks.
Well started the break-in this weekend. Out of the box was getting regular 2 shot group’s (sighting in new barrel) ranging 1/5 inch to 1 inch. Gonna start doing 3-4 shot groups next time I go out didn’t want to waste too much Ammo until I got it close plus I had a time limit (super bowl started in three hours). .308 Black Hill’s 168GR boat-tail factory loads seemed pretty consistant. Gonna try some other ammo once Iget it dialed in. Stock did feel funny when shooting (I’m used to wood), just the recoil that is or it could have been the muzzle break. Saw a catalog at the local storting goods store and the 09′ VTR’s are coming with a upgraded stock and alot more variant’s they seem to be opening up this into a whole line I think there was one with a 26 or longer barrel (bench rest for sure). Oh yeah decided to go straight to a Leopold VXIII 4.5 – 14 x 40mm with the B&C reticle couldn’t resist got the same on my 300 Weatherby but it’s LR reticle and a 50mm (too darn big for hunting use).
Sorry I meant 1/2 inch…
Well to answer your question, the triangle barrel does have a few pluses and some draw backs. It is lighter but, with the mzzle break you only use tewnty inches of the barrel efficently. Not only that but you actually have more surface area which helps keep it from over heating. And yes you can make something stronger by removing material. I am an experienced machinist as well as a mechanial and structual engineer, you just have to remove it the right way. I ran it through a program a have and according to the results the variations in the side wall actually make it vibrate less by dissrupting the path that the shockwave will take. If you take a tube of metal and hit i with a hammer softly you will hear and feel its vibration. But if you take an end mill and cut a flat across the top, bottom, or sides and hit it you will not be able to hear the vibration at all and will feel it significantly less. Remember energy is never lost only transfered. So all the triangle barrel does is make dissrupt the path that the energy is taking. The bad news is no barrel tuner will help because the barrel will not flex up and down like most. Accorin to my calculations ( mind you they are sometimes wrong) the barrel would make an oval pattern when shot.
I have a vtr in 308w and have currently sold the stock and put an h-s precision on it. The factory stock felt and handled nice but the triangle barrel touched almost everywhere besides the tell tale remington “tip of the forend”. I removed material for the barrel but the groups barely improved. It defintely needed a bedding job but I have heard problems around the internet of the bedding not holding or bonding to the stock. Not sure if that is true or not but I wasn’t willing to try. I have mounted it in the h-s stock with no improvement in group size with handloads. Still working on it and this seems to be my fussiest Remington 700 308w to date. I’m curious what other people are loading and if there is a pet load out there like the LTR is with the 168gr federal gold medal match rounds. I’m hovering at 1 1/4 groups with it and is sickening to me for handloads. Just a comment on the triangle barrel. I have multiple 700’s 308w with heavy barrels including the LTR and an sps tactical in a h-s stock also “sold the hogue” and was group shooting the other day along with the sps and the triangle barrel gets hot way faster than the sps 20″ bull barrel. With the vtr you could shoot about 10-15 at 30deg.farh. before throwing and the sps was just like my ltr 20+shots before you had to let the barrel cool. I’m not sure about the true point of the triangle barrel for cooling or being more ridgid but you can’t shoot it as many times as the other rifles I have with bull barrels fluting or not. I bought it because it was cool looking and a unique barrel design.The sps tactical like the ltr shoots everything good “.50″ but the vtr is not shooting anything “good” so far. Any info would be great and spread the knowledge. If you have nothing good to say don’t bother saying anything at all.
Can somebody give me some more information on the .22-250. I hand load everything and will be buying a VTR soon.
Thanks Blaine
I dunno where the guy in the above is from but someone who talks like that and has no respect. In Texas if he would have said somthing like that at a public range he is likely to get shot. So dude Fuck off.
I am a professional structural engineer. In 1977, I was granted a patent on a structural system that uses triangular cross-section members with a circular cross-section hole down the middle. Remington’s VTR barrel is identical to that shape. The objective of this shape is to optimize structural force transmission in compression, torsion, or flexure with a minimum of mass.
During development of the concept, I established that the triangular cross-section provides the maximum surface area for a given enclosed volume. This accounts for the Remington heat dissipation claim/feature. The round/flute/triangle figure in this blog drawing puts the triangle inside the circle. The more useful comparison is for equal cross-sectional areas, giving equal barrel mass. This would put the circle inside the triangle.
Removing the mass along the central axis leaves the mass in the three corners at a maximum distance from the central axis. This simultaneously maximizes the axial compression rigidity and the torsional rigidity, also a Remington claim/feature. The torsional rigidity promotes stability under the influence of the rifling twist, a special benefit in a rifle barrel, especially for follow-up shots.
Flexural stiffness is optimal for downward bending of the muzzle end in the orientation Remington uses in the stock; one corner up and two corners down. With a “top slots only” muzzlebrake, the top corner is in tension for each shot and the bottom corners are in compression, where buckling concerns reduce the allowable load-carrying capacity and give a near-equal balance to the top portion of the barrel cross-section.
All this techno-mumb-jumbo counts for doodly, unless the holes in the target get chummy and cuddle up together. As with all accuracy discussions, the teamwork between barrel, bedding, and ammo gives a unique performance result. This must be where Remington spent its advertised years in development.
Obviously, the manufacturer cannot control the customer’s choice of rounds, so they have to shoot for a statistical middle, so to speak. But the bedding is another story. Remington advertises a multi-point mount, not free-floating or glass bedding. This would be crucial for taming the harmonics in concert with the unique tension-vs-compression qualities of the barrel shape. Any after-market attempts to modify the factory work should be prepared for some really disappointing results. Free-floating the barrel would definitely optimize the worst affects of a lightweight, flexible stock.
Theoretically, this barrel cross-section should be stiffer than round for the same total mass or lighter for the same dynamic rigidity, but the industrial wisdom and practical field inertia is all compiled for round. Some tuning of knowledge and expectations is required to fully appreciate the features of this shape and the Remington product package.
Incidentally, I haven’t bought one yet. I own a Remington 700 BDL in .30-’06 that shoots better than I do. Together we routinely put three rounds rapid fire into the bottom of the small size frozen orange juice can at 100 yards. We think that should do OK for putting meat on the table or defending against fierce bears or other predatory two-legged mammals. Still, a Desert Camo VTR in .308 would be might fine …
Hey,
Great write-up. I was thinking about the barrel, and if I knew how to do the math, I would compare the volume to surface area ratio. I know a sphere is the shape that has the most amount of volume to the least amount of surface area. Maybe there is something to this ratio of volume to surface area. What I am thinking is that, proportionately, the triangle has more surface area in relation to volume than the round barrel. Since I don’t know how to the math I won’t know if my guess is right, let alone if this ratio would have anything to do with increasing heat transfer. Just something to ponder. What do you think?
WOW! What can I say.
I came accross this blog by accident last year and came back to once I acquired my Rem VTR in 223. (Thank you Santa!)
I grabbed a compact Leupold off of my Rem 700 ADL .308 and promptly installed it onto the VTR. I took some Federal Classic .223 55grain FMJ boat tail to the range (that was the only ammo I had available). I achieved 2 inch groups after 20 rounds. I am still looking for a better scope(Nikon Monarch BDC with IRT?) The groupos all had three very close with the other two farther away. Probably my fault while shooting.
I have read about breaking in barrels, etc. I genreally clean my guns between 20-50 rounds depending on the gun and ammo. Enough said, I am not an expert but do go to the range weekly. Although I know I will not shoot 1 inch groups for a little while, I will build up my collection of brass for reloading. All of these rounds are from the same lot and will form the the chamber nicely, so I guess I will suffer through less than spectacular accuracy until I can start reloading the spent brass.
After reading some of the posts in this blog I have to say to all the “gun snobs” out there…go to another blog. The practical info provided by a regular guy has been invaulable for me. I have been looking for a 1:9 twist for numerous reasons. One, target shooting 100, 200 and beyond; two, varmint shooting and three, deer. Micheal who wrote on Jan 23 09, stated what I felt like after reading some of the rude posts. To Michael…Thank you for your service to our country!
To the rude gun snobs…I’ll say it my way…just because it’s not your way doesn’t mean it isn’t the right way or fun. I didn’t want a Min-14…been there. I didn’t want an M-4 type/AR clone…done that. I wanted a light weight, less than expensinve, bolt action, .223 with a 1:9 twist, to work with for the next few years, to see how far out I can hit a target. When I’m done with that and maybe during, I plan to take a trip to prairie dog land and shoot some more. Somewhere in the midst of all that, I plan to use Trophy Bonded Bear Claw bullets to kill a deer. I witnessed a friend do this last year on a ten-point buck with his .223. Impressive!
Ryochiji…Keep up the great work with your blog. I wished more regular folks would join in the fray as there are too many snobs in the shooting sports.
As for your trigger comment I checked mine with a trigger pull gauge and it shows an average, after five pulls, of 4.5 pounds. The newer Remington triggers are adjustable and although I do my own adjustments, I do recommend taking it to a gunsmith for adjustment. (A gunsmith freind spent quality time showing how to work with Rem 700’s) You can lighten the pull for a more comfortable feel when you shoot. Mine is now down to 3.75 pounds with no creep.
Have you worked up any reloads?
I will post again with future results. Keep up the great blog.
Justin, even without doing the math, your conceptual perception is spot on. Patting your back, I admire your priorities: get the concepts right before doing the math. This saves alot of pencil/eraser time.
Conceptually, for any chosen amount of enclosed area/volume, the more sides the perimeter has, the less surface area you have enclosing the chosen area/volume.
Obviously, one is the least number of sides, but it doesn’t enclose anything; same for two. Three, then, is the fewest sides for a closed figure than encloses an area. Thus, in two dimensions, the ratio between perimeter and enclosed area is greatest for a triangle. A round circle has an infinite number of sides, so its ratio is least.
In three dimensions, the same is true for the ratio of surface area to enclosed volume, where the sphere is least, as you said. The greatest ratio in three dimensions is for a tetrahedron, which has four triangular faces, but it is not a popular shape for any manufactured item I can think of except a coffee creamer package from long, long ago.
A VTR with a full-length Mannlicher stock and a structurally integrated end cap would provide a fully tunable test bed for positioning structural contact/support points between the barrel and the stock for tuning the harmonics of any chosen round at any chosen target distance. A bench shooter’s Valhalla.
Richard,
In your calculations or computer simulation, how did you describe the initial shock load as the bullet enters the leade and the final shock load as the gas exits the muzzlebrake?
I would expect the time lag between these two events and the different direction of applied force, axial at the breech and downward at the muzzle, would influence the oscillatory path of the muzzle after firing.
Jon,
From the “paper” side of your field work, I would expect the shots from a hot VTR barrel to drift up. Did they?
More generally, the great hazard to physics research, such as this fun version, is what I call the FL/AC affect: Fluorescent Light/Air Conditioning. All real phenomena are a complex pile of simple elements. The challenge for the experimenter is to make the pile smaller before reliably observing and recording the results. This takes work. It is so much easier to just wave one’s brainy arms around in a FL/AC room, run some simplistic computer simulation routine, and declare a significant result. Traditional firearms targets, paper and legged, are notably unimpressed by such self-aggrandizement. Shot placement is all that counts.
To Happy Rock. I appreciate the thanks. Truth is, if I wasn’t married with a beautiful little daughter I would spend the rest of my life in the Corps. I was happy to serve and proud that I did. And I’ve never wanted the parades and big shows, my biggest reward is hearing a “thank you” and getting a handshake from grateful, red-blodded tax-paying Americans. God Bless and Semper Fi!
I have recently purchaced the new VTR chambered in 223 and I am pleased with the gun over all . the trigger needs to be worked or up graded , the muzzel brake dose little to nothing to reduce felt recoil , the bolt dose not have the smooth glide that the rest of my 700’s have .
Now I reall like the look , funcional ??? , but at 200 yrds with a 3-8 mph crosswind I was able to consitantly shoot 5 shot groups at around .75 MOA and the best of the day being .5 MOA . This was done with Hornady 55 gr V-MAX bullets . I just ordered 5 boxes of Hornady 40 gr V-MAX MOLY bullets to see how they preform .
I am a huge modle 700 fan and am very happy with this rifle however I would like to see Remington spend a lil more time making the muzzel brake work better and maybe go back to the old triggers .
I am interested in buying the VTR in 308. Win. I asked a guy about the Remington’s earlier and he said that they are having problems with them. What do you think about the .308 Win?
Hi Chris,
I have own the .308 I have yet to shoot it past 200 yards. off a sand bag rest me my brother and my dad were getting one to 1.5 inch groups. The stock isn’t bad but I would like to replace. The action isn’t as smooth as most and I have found it can be a little picky feeding round’s or at least with a real pointed tip. Personally would wait for this year’s new model’s to come out. They aren’t on the site last I had checked but are in a catalog and feature longer barrel’s better stock’s they are building more variant’s… If I had it all to do again… I would be getting the new “target tactical”
I recently purchased a vtr/.308 and have yet to fire it . Are there any pointers on how(if needed) to break in the barrel ,how many rounds per cleaning/cleaning tips in gen. This is a great site for user info and technicle info. i have learned alot about my gun and cannot wait to blast some rounds. Also would like to thank the men and woman of the military… without you we would not be able enjoy this fine sport.
Sorry can’t help with that the sporting goods store I bought mine from put their instructions in the box and well I can’t remember it was something like 5 – one shot’s (one shot – clean – one shot – clean) then 5 – 2 shot’s, 3 – three shot’s then cleaning every 10 shot’s after that. don’t know if it was the best break but it was what they recomended.
thanks for all the posts and the blog thinking about buyin one its between the vtr and the savage so still more looking to do but thanks
Soooo the rem 700 vtr .223 goood or noooottttt ??????
stop the crap to buy or not ???
Luke,
Same choice I came down to my buddy bought the Savage in 30.06. The action is a little smoother on the Savage and the trigger is close the x-mark vs. Accutrigger is close. Savage also has the “accustock” coming out which looks pretty decent good stiffness and a bedded action. Hard call…
Good job on the write up….. some of these guys just get too carried away with them-selves.
A personal opinion about a product from the average shooter is what I was looking for.
I’m considering either the Rem STS 20″ or the VTR both in 308.
$599 & $699 respectively. I’m not rich so the price tag is ok.
I’d like to find a 22-250 or 223 in their Digital Camo but no luck.
I’ve got number pistols 45s, 5.7 and 22lr and smaller bore rifles 17 cal and 22 and a FN PS-90.
This rifle would need to be a do everything else rifle. Not going to be big game hunting so figure the 308 would fit the bill pretty well.
I enjoyed reading everyone’s posts…. Regards
I have a VTR .308 With a 3X9X50 Bushnell Elite. It is picky picky about ammo! I have shot several brands and grades of ammo through it with nothing shooting close to the same except for federal .150gr fusion and .150 gr. powershock. It hates Hornady .150 SST and also military ammo[ 5" in. groups @ 100yds.] Last year I took a buck using the .150 Fusion ammo, I was impressed. Lets just say the bullet performed well. Next year I’m going to try WIN .150 ballistic silvertips. I had to re- adjust the scope for these. I get 1.5 inch groups with these verses 3/4 to1″ with the fusions. The muzzle brake performs well, noise goes up barrel stays down. A-B with my .270 700BDL confirms this. I was told they shaved the barrel triangular to save weight ,still get bullbarrel accuracy and reduce vibration. My trigger out of the box was set @ 4lbs. I’m cosidering having that reduced one pound to better match my other rifles. Can’t say I’m super impressed with the accuracy because I have a.243 700 ADL that is a tack driver with nearly any ammo at any range W/ no scope adjustment. The 700BDL .270 is much less finicky and just as accurate, but the VTR has the ” looks “. I would like to hear what ammo other people are using in the .308. I would like to settle on one brand and grain for deer hunting.
I’m not sure if someone has said it or not yet (didn’t want to take the time to read ALL the comments) but I believe the whole theory behind quicker heat dissipation is true for a triangular barrel. While fluting a barrel would in fact increase the effective area of the barrel, the main reason they cool down faster is because they have less mass. Two items made out of the same material but have different masses have different thermal energies. For example, 5lbs of steel would take longer to cool down than 4lbs due to the differences in masses. So for rifle barrels, the triangle shaped barrel will cool off faster but at the same time it will also heat up faster. So what’s the point? Less weight to pack around all day? Seems logical to me.
I have been looking for a good 223 with nice accuracy that can reach out and varmints touch at a range of about 350 to 400 yards. And i have been looking at the 700VTR and the 700SPS Varmint. The up side to the VTR is the 1 in 9″ twist for long range and the trianglular barrel for cooling. As the SPS does not have the 1 in 9″ twist and the barrel is not fluted. With this i know that the VTR is a better rifle for what i am looking for ,but the only turn off i have on the VTR is the muzzle break witch would not allow me to tap the barrel for a suppresser im sure??? So now i am wondering if there are good after market barrels for the 700SPS that are fluted with a 1 in 9″ twist that i could buy to be taped? And if I did this would it have the accuracy of the VTR at long range??? If so what type and length of barrel do you recommend??? Please give me your opinion on what i am looking for and what you think would be best?
I’m not going to bother to read any of the comments or look at Remington’s website, but I do believe the R700 has a 1/12″ twist and 55gr .223 is far too heavy for such a fast twist. You’d be much better off in 38gr or 40gr.
Again, I’d suggest you double check me on that, but just some direction to get you started.
I’d just like to start off saying that this is the first time i’ve ever replied to a BLog, so bear with me. I recently purchased a 700 VTR in .308, well worth the money to me, they gun shop installed a Barska 6.5-20×50 “Varmint” riflescope, and i bought two boxes of Winchester bonded 150 gr. rounds. Straight out of the box it shot within 2 1/2 to 3 inches, I know, I know, more experienced shooters would be ashamed, but thats all i need to kill a coyote or bobcat. As for the reverb, it sucks, i generally shoot out of the loft of our barn at whatever is mesing with our cattle on a particular night so i invested in some high quality harware store counter top earplugs, problem solved. as for the barrel, i just though it looked cool and it was lighter than the round barrel, so an A+ in my book, now, i wanted a black stock, but i could only get a desert camo, kinda’ tacky, but it’s only a gun. I personally don’t think the stock is flimsy, it doesn’t break when i shoot it, and it hasn’t cracked after a few trips and bangs against a door frame. As for the comment about any good rifle owner being ashamed of Mini 14’s, how dare you, we have a Mini 14 ranch rifle that my dad bought before our house fire, it lasted through it, and shoots fine. Hell, the fiberglass heat shroud is still in awesome shape, and i can guarantee I can kill more coyotes with it faster than you can get your second round cycled with your sub MOA rifles. Now, with that said, I sahall depart. Oh, and very nice personal review on this gun Ryo.
I purchased a VTR even after reading your blog, and after taking it to the range this morning I would have to agree with little you say and disagree with most of what you say. I respect your rights in doing what you do and saying what you say, but in my opinion you were way off base with most of it. BUT then again, rifle to rifle, ammo to ammo, those were your results. I am a shotgunner that has recently gotten in to rifles and the VTR is only the 3rd rifle I have ever owned. I have shot every weapon an infantryman in the army has the oppurtunity to shoot, and I can honestly say, MY VTR is the finest weapon I have ever shot, and I can say that after one day on the range. Here is what I did, and found. .308 caliber, with nikon 4.5X14 scope, I shot one box of monarch, 150 grain rounds. Shot 1 round, cleaned the bore thoroughly with hoppes bore cleaner, and cleaned it with patches til perfectly clean. I repeated this with 10 rounds, and 10 cleanings. I then grouped hornady 165 grain rounds, nice, but not what I was after, grouped Federal Classic 168 grain rounds, and again, nice, but not what I was after. I cleaned my barrel after each ammo. I then shot 168 grain winchester ballistic silver tips, and first couple of 3 shot groups were easily inside of an inch at 100 yds. I then zeroed with a dirty barrel with it. I cleaned my barrel and my two first rounds were right on top of eachother, third round and inch off. then took 20 minutes in between rounds with a clean barrel (100 degrees outside while shooting) and 3 rounds, driven like nail. The barrel, with muzzle brake did not reduce recoil as much as I thought compared to my savage, but it was less, with very little rise after shot and was able to keep scope on target. Trigger, and I am not experienced with comp triggers, was the best trigger I have pulled, set at 3.81 lbs, as cabellas checked it for me. The stock and rest, typical army issued and may or may not be improved, I am not experienced enough or have shot enough different rifles to offer an opinion on it. The balance was fantastic, light weight for a bull barrel (I almost went with savage model 10 pc, and was thankful I didn’t) Again, do not shoot a wide variety of rifles, but have tons of experience with weapons in general. I can say I would recommend this rifle to anyone, regardless of experience. I deer hunt in south texas, and the triangle barrel makes perfect sense for stand hunters as it will rest perfectly out of a stand as opposed to circular barrels. Stalkers, wow, light weight with the accuracy of a heavier barreled gun, you should love it. The overall look and feel of this weapon is undescribable, fantastic.
Hello
I was a test tech, for many of the company though out New England and was one of the techs, that worked on the original design for the M16 in this Cal .223, so i said this to say that
after receiving my VTR in .223 for evaluation, I set up the VTR with a Bushnell 6-18X50 scope level it off the bottom flat of the barrel and leveled the scope to that point of reference then bore sighted it for one hundred yards then took it to the rang for final zeroing in upon set up and firing i found that while the stock felt flat in my hand the crosshairs were cocked off left at the top to right at the bottom it puzzled me for a moment and when i went and fired my first 3 rounds found the shouts were way off but after leveling the crosshairs (not adjusting the scope ) it came in to almost zero I am a sub zero shooter so I mad my adjustment from there and I am now at less then a nickel pat, and getting closer I found that the stock doesn’t fit the barrel and receiver right and can cause the rifle to set badly in your hand if you are not aware of it or taking snap shoots but by doing the setup as stated and leveling your crosshairs on target this can be a sweet shooting rifle
Thank You
Ray Leete
Gidday, Interesting blog. I have been hunting for over 20 years now, i grew up with a SMLE .303 used it to shoot everything from paper targets to rabbits, pigs, goats and red deer…ammo was cheap then, i have used many different calibres along the way, some i liked, some i didn’t. I have found that every rifle can be good or bad depending on the person behind it. I wanted something lighter more compact with no recoil, so a year ago i bought VTR .223 and have fitted it with a 6×42 NC STAR scope. So far i havn’t had any problems with it, i think it’s great although the noise seems to be louder than my .303,but i don’t think anyone has built the perfect rifle yet, or we’d all have one i’m sure. I think i would have been better off with one in 22.250 cal as they shoot further and flatter and i like long shots. Here in NZ most of the game i have shot have been well under 100 yards so the .223 is fine. Some would say this calibre is too small for deer, but i think if you know your weapon and it’s limitations you can put down any animal. I would love one of these in stainless, they don’t seem to suffer the effects of corrosive cheap ammo (wolf) as much. My friends and i are hunters, we don’t get too far into the technical side of things, our weapons are our tools that put the food on our tables so we use rifles that can do that with one shot because mostly thats the only shot you get, they have to be lite,not only do you have to carry it around all day in thick bush, you still have to carry it when you have a large pig or deer on your back, they also have to be cheap to run, so all round the VTR fits the bill perfectly.
Nice post. I have been considering a .308 VTR as a new silhouette rifle and it looks pretty much like what I want.
I read somewhere that the triangular barrel was an optimal design for stiffness and that the fluted design was not as stiff for the material put into it. That article was written by an engineer. I think that makes the barrel light enough for offhand shooting, for me anyway. The rifles I have handeld in the gun shop seem light enough to hold up and heavy enough to hold still, and that’s pretty much what you want. I was wondering if the barrel not being floated is offset by the increased heat dissipation. The triangle design bleeds off more heat because the walls around the bore are thinner than the round or fluted barrels, and that’s actually what cools it. You can actually make barrels very thin because the metal used is very strong, but they aren’t as stiff as they need to be when they are really thin. Savage used to make very thin barreled rifle barrels and make them stiff by attaching them to a shotgun barrel. The Savage model 24 had a rifle barrel on top and shotgun on the bottom, and the rifle barrels on top were much smaller than you thought they should be. The triangle is a good solution for that.
Thank you for your impressions.
R
This is my first post ever but love to read all of the other posts. I had a Savage 204 with accu trigger and got along great in the pd towns until the barrel got hot. While checking around in the local gun shop a couple years ago I saw a Remmington VTR for the first time.It had great ballance and shouldered a lot better than my Savage. It was a 204 with a Weaver 4×16 scope with target dot. In thirty minites it was mine and the Savage was not. You understand I don’t perferate much paper but I like to see the bullet hit and see all the pink mist in the scope.The VTR seems to shoot at least as well as the Savage but without the heating problem.It seems to bark a little louder. Probably a combination of a shorter barrel and the muzzle brake. My thoughts are that the VTR is great on a bench rest but also is not too heavy or long for a carry rifle for coyotes.
Just to update on my VTR. I shot well with it with factory ammo, reloading has taken it to a new level. Since beginning of October, I have shot the following. 1 146 axis doe, 1 140 pound whitetail doe, 1 195 pound whitetail buck and 4 hogs ranging from 289 pounds up to 457 pounds. The deer were all shot threw the shoulder. The Hogs were all headshots, all shots were out of the same stand at 200 yards approximately. Not one animal took a step but fell dead in it’s tracks. If you have not shot the 165 grain sierra gameking spitzer boattail, you need to. It is a fantastic bullet. Other guys I hunt with all shoot .300 win mag, 30-06, and .270, Every hog they have shot travelled a minimum 75 yards through some of the thickest, prickliest, thorniest brush you will ever see. Needless to say, my VTR .308 outperformed every rifle and bullet used so far this year. Factory ammo will only take you so far, and these guys are shooting Nosler, ballistic silvertips, federal big game, so they are shooting good quality factory, did not compare to sierra game king. Good luck with your plinking or hunting.